This is a question that goes out to the RIMarkable readers. Why does Verizon disable GPS in their BlackBerry devices?
At one point Verizon was actually advertising GPS in the BlackBerry 8830. The pix to the right was snagged from a scan of the Spring 2007 edition of Verizon Wireless Connect and GPS is in the feature list clear as day. We know now that GPS didn’t actually make the cut, but, the bigger question is why.
We know that Verizon has the network to handle it. Verizon actually disables it in the BlackBerry but offers it as an add-on called VZ Navigator on other devices.
What gives? Leave your comments below. RIMarkable reader Hello No as well as many other Verizon subscribers would really like to know.
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Was just in Europe (UK & NL) in September. While the phone worked flawlessly,
the GPS was still a no go…. Actually spent a fair amount of time (airport delays)
specifically trying …
Plain old BS… Verizon, wake up… how about competing for business fairly, instead of take away something that was given to us free of charge from the manufacturer, and then charging us to get it back. Freedom of choice, good service & fairness, is what your best consumers appreciate & ultimately patronize.
Offer a great network, with all the freedoms to go along with it & you won’t have to stoop to holding hardware ransom, just to make a buck. Remember the phrase… penny wise & pound foolish. You’ll be a great deal more profitable in the long run by giving the consumer what the want, and in the case of the Blackberry, what the already own. Come on Verizon… surprise us all… do the right thing, give us back our GPS and stop making BS excuses about security risks.
You’ve got a great network… if you start treating your customers with the same importance, nobody could compete with you.
Just got my new 8830 as a work phone. Am not surprised VZW is still at it’s games. Had a Moto 815 before and fought with the locked out BT obex and ringtones. I would never go with VZW for a personal phone. I use a different provider with full open phones (RZR) and they use VZW network for extended coverage. Best of both worlds. Full phones with VZW’s coverage. Even if Verizon changes their tatics, I will not use them for personal because other companies are out there that know what customer service is. If I could only influence our enterprise choices against VZW (10,000+ handsets).
Sounds like it’s time for another class action lawsuit–false advertising. That’s what happened last time Verizon Wireless pulled this with the Bluetooth and eventually they fixed it.
Expect them to respond that E911 works, but that is bogus when it was already out that the 8830 had full GPS, not just AGPS.
Was anyone apart of the last Verizon Class? Who did they use?
I just got off the phone with verizon tech support myself after I bought the phone and the guy there sold me the VZNavigator package….
The tech support guy and I spent about an hour on the phone and I was informed that first, support is not available yet. Second, a blackberry desktop software updated, version 4.6, is currently in beta stages at VZW and should be released by the end of the year at the latest.
Currently that version of the software is floating around in house at VZW and GPS will be enabled on the 8830’s shortly.
Fortunately he disabled my VZNavigator subscription for now, so I don’t have to pay the $10 a month for something I can’t use yet.
But they are telling people at the counter that the 8830’s are GPS enabled and working, just they still have yet to release the v4.6 software update!
I find the NMEA bluetooth device I have works just fine with the Blackberry – and my laptop. I can use google maps with the bluetooth and even the BB built in map software works just fine. It is annoying to have to bring along my device but it does fit on a lanyard when I walk places and I bought a soapdish that sticks to my windshield that holds the small device as well for car travel. If I can use the software this way then why does Verizon turn off a simple chip that only captures lat long points. It’s the software that can cause problems. If Verizon actually developed a software program that worked better than Google Maps then I’d consider buying it. It is nice being able to type in google maps a store (Walmart or Starbucks) and get a list of nearby locations!!
I continue to be amazed by the consumers of the 8830 and VZW. Did you not do your research before you bought the device or service? If you were like me, at the end of a contract term and looking for an upgraded system for productivity. Then maybe you should have looked at what services and software were available before you purchased another device and entered into another contract. This thread alone started in July. Other boards have similar information available. Be an informaed consumer. Just because RIM put the GPS into our 8830 doesn’t mean VZW has to sell it activated. And just so you know. I use GPS in my automobile for directions, and on the golf course for yardage, both need to be outside to work. The car is not outside. The GPS receiver needs to have line of sight unobstructed to the GPS satelites. I use the productivity parts of my BB. The phone, email, SMS. It’s all I can do to keep it doing that full time.
The bottom line is if you’re not happy go somewhere else for your buisness and stop compaining.
Ok here is why I do NOT beleive that it is ok for this to be disabled. If you bought a car, and this car cam with headlights for the manufacture. Then, those headlights are disabled by the dealership. Now the dealership will allow you to use the headlights that you paid for aslong as you give the $10 per month. see you paid for the headlights when you bought the car. You are the sole owner of that car. The electricity to run the headlights does not come in anyway from the dealership. How can the dealer stop you from using the lights?
It is the same thing with the GPS. Blackberry built in the GPS, You bought the Phone With The GPS. You own that phone and if someone steals the phone you are out not VZW. GPS does not use VZW Sats. Nor thier Cell Towers. Now they want to charge you to use this feature.
If the Dealership did this you would see class action lawsuits.
I have the same complaint with the 8830. On usage in Europe, I was just in italy and all of my business partners have 8830’s and they have full GPS funtionality. One we get Verizon to allow free GPS access, go to http://www.nav4all.com and get thier software, free until 2010. It works worldwide. The friends from italy use it here in the states when they come here and it works great.
I have filed complaints to the FTC, FCC and BBB. Everyone should do the same so someone will take action. Thse posts don’t do anything to verizon, it just allows us to vent.
I HAVE BEEN A VERIZON CUSTOMER FOR MANY YEARS. I RECENTLY TALKED TO REP. ABOUT UPGRADING TO A BLACKBERRY 8830. MY WIFE AND I ARE GOING TO BE IN EUROPE FOR ABOUT 30 DAYS. WHAT APPEALED TO ME WAS BEING ABLE TO USE THE GPS NAV. ON OUR RENTAL CAR. ANOTHER FACTOR WAS BEING ABLE TO PHONE HOME TO TALK TO RELATIVES IN THE STATES. I’M GLAD I HAVE FOUND OUT ABOUT THE GPS BEING BLOCKED ON THIS DEVICE BEFORE I BOUGHT IT.
I’M DISAPPOINTED THAT VERIZON WOULD DO THIS TO THEIR CUSTOMERS WHEN BB OFFERS THIS GPS ITEM IN THEIR DEVICE. I’M NOW THINKING ABOUT WAITING TILL THEY CHANGE THEIR POLICY OR SWITCHING TO ANOTHER CARRIER SUCH AS AT&T OR SPRINT.
Response from Verizon when I inquired when a patch will be release to enable GPS, not only to VZ Navigator?
“Thank you for contacting our Verizon Wireless website. We are happy to assist you with your question relating to the GPS service on the Blackberry 8830.
Verizon Wireless is committed to providing the very latest in products and services. At this time, we are unable to state if or when a patch to enable GPS will be available for the Blackberry 8830. The GPS service that is native to the Global BlackBerry does not have the level of security, protection or performance that Verizon Wireless requires (security precautions are important to prevent unintended use or misuse of location data).
If you have further questions or concerns, please write to us again through http://www.VerizonWireless.com. We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing Verizon Wireless.”
The GPS function is also blocked on the VZW BB8130!!!
Pls let me know two things:
1) where can I sign up for the class action lawsuit
2) Website to unlock the GPS code
You can file a complaint with the FTC:
https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01
Following lawsuit was filed against VZW for “bait and switch”!
http://news.findlaw.com/andrews/bt/tel/20071210/20071210_wyatt.html
Verizon’s crippling of the autonomous GPS in my 8830 has caused a very negative public relations perception with that company. You can be sure that I will strongly consider switching carriers at my upcoming contract renewal time!!
Pls note there is a class action lawsuit filled on this subject.
Following webpage has an embedded url with the filling content,
http://www.cyberlawonline.com/cyberlawg/general-interest/suit-challenges-verizon-on-blackberry-gps.html
The tax payer’s paid for the GPS system that covers the USA, I bought an Alltel 8830 and it works just like Blackberry built it to.
I have Verizon cell phones but will not buy there messed up BB 8830 or the Curve from them
OH has anyone noticed that VZW 8830 GPS does not work when you don’t have a cell tower!! but on ones with the built in GPS it still works, plus once you get a new phone your old BB can still be used as a stand alone GPS provided you have maps
@Brian:
Dunno about you, but MY VZW 8830 GPS doesn’t work AT ALL, regardless of cell tower or not. I’m not paying them $10/month for VZNavigator service. UNLESS someone can say for sure that paying the $10/month will also make the internal GPS available to other apps (BB Maps, Google Maps, the various golf tracking apps, etc.)????
I sent a letter to VZW Customer Care inquiring as to if they had any plans to enable the built-in GPS support in the 8830. I got this reply:
“On behalf of Verizon Wireless, I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this equipment matter may have caused. You have been a valued customer for several years. Let me assure you, Verizon Wireless does not engage in fasle advertising and our official doctrine is one of clear customer disclosure.”
…”The GPS locator chip, which is present in all wireless phones we currently sell (with the exception of the BlackBerry 6750), is used solely for tracking purposes by Emergency 911 Services and does not function like a typical GPS device.”
While the reply sidesteps my question with generalities and obvious corporate matra, it appears that what I’m supposed to believe is that Verizon cannot enable the GPS features in the phone because they don’t exist.
Remindes me of a line in one of Sting’s songs “everyone spoke the truth but all we heard were lies.” It applies so well to “our official doctrine is one of clear customer disclosure.”
I have an 8830 from Verizon and an 8830 from Alltel. The Verizon is nearly 2 years old and the Alltel is one week old. The GPS on the verizon is (of course) disabled. The GPS on the Alltel works great with the blackberry maps program. It’s slow to aquire satellites but once it does it stays locked pretty well. I downloaded free trial of garmin mobile and it works much better than the blackberry maps program but costs $99/year for a subscription.
Here’s the part that makes me love Verizon even more: If you buy the Garmin Mobile program for the Verizon 8830, you also need to buy an external GPS because Verizon has locked the internal GPS. Apparantly even Garmin can’t get the GPS unlocked on the Verizon.
I am similarly upset with Verizon. I’m tired of being nickel and dimed to death at every turn. They have a strong network, but holding me hostage and hating me as a customer has me to the point of picking ANY OTHER provider just to make a point. See http://steveoneverything.blogspot.com/2008/04/why-does-verizon-hate-its-customers.html
We have a coporate account of 200 blackberry users. Hope Verizon is listening because after reading this article I have instructed our Telecom team to look at alternatives. We have a huge sales team and the GPS feature would make a great differnce for them when they travel. Thank you for a great article.
J.Stoutmare
Verizon VZ Nav is not GPS. IT uses triangulation of cell sites. If you have VZ Nav and you are lost in the desert or moutnians, forget about using it to find your way.
To Stephen the Geocacher: Maybe we should publicize this on Geocaching.com. It was one of the reasons I bought this phone, too.
There is a petition you can sign asking Verizon to unlock the GPS feature. http://www.petitiononline.com/vzwgps/petition.html
You will have to cut and past into your web broswer.
There is a petition you can sign asking Verizon to unlock the GPS feature. http://www.petitiononline.com/vzwgps/petition.html
You will have to cut and past into your web browser.
I’ve been looking at this subject for months now. I’ve been absolutely amazed as to why Verizon hasn’t “joined the game” as many of the larger cell providers have. Via a web search, I’ve been only been able to find one CDMA network phone (same network Verizon/Sprint uses) with a Sirf III chipset, and you can’t even get it in the states? So the guarantee of it working is minimal.
Looking at GSM phones, I’ve found phones into the 100’s that contain unlocked AGPS chipset variables and integrated combinations (AGPS/Sirf III) completely unlocked.
Why is Verizon doing this? Like the many that have stated above, they simply want to charge. The design/updating cost for the VZNavigator service isn’t a cheap one. And like hell if they are going to give it away for free, or allow you to make your own GPS software installation choices i.e. TomTom, IGO Myway, Garmin XT mobil, etc.
In regards to the comment about VZNavigator not working in area’s without cell sites, It’s not only that you can’t use VZNavigator in no cell site area’s, it’s also the fact it’s sending “pings” or location verification to the network (using YOUR minutes) to verify accurate triangulation – your location. So yes, if you get lost in the desert using VZNavigator, you better just find yourself a cactus god, and give your phone to it as homage, because you’re gona die!
In regards to the other individual’s company having 100 blackberries, and will reconsider Verizon’s business practices, I solute you!! It’s not until actions like this get sent, will things start to change!
On a side note, my contract ends with Verizon this July…AT&T will be my next provider. HTC Diamond Touch, ASUS P550, Glofiish 650 (700,800,810) and the the mass offered via GSM unlocked, Unsuppressed GPS, here I come!!!
Well, I didn’t even get the system standard crap, just that it is know that we block our phones to sell our servie… take it up the rear VZW customers…
——————————————————————————–
From: Amanda.Overturf@VerizonWireless.com [mailto:Amanda.Overturf@VerizonWireless.com]
Sent: Thu 05-Jun-08 3:51 PM
To: Steve
Subject: RE: Contact info
Steve,
The GPS still works and in compliant with wireless E911, which is required by law. We simply block the use of a 3rd party application because we provide navigation service for the device.
This is all the information that I have available to me.
Mandy
Well, I received this after some other communication… Possibily good news…
Steve,
I was able to have some additional information sent to me. At this time there are several 3rd party applications for navigation that are being tested for the 8830 and should be available later this year. It has always been Verizon’s approach to test programs and software to make sure the security and performance meets our standards because even though the application is not owned by Verizon Wireless the handset and it’s performance are associated with Verizon Wireless. The BlackBerry 8830 World Edition Smartphone is currently GPS capable to support Enhanced 911 Phase 2 automatic location identification.
I have asked that when the additional applications are available for the Project Manager to reach out to me so that I can let you know.
I hope this answered your questions.
Mandy
I am a corporate Blackberry 8830 user. My company owns somewhere around 100 of these devices. All of them have the internal GPS disabled as expected. Now what I find interesting is that if I were to go shop for a phone today, I could find the exact same phone with GPS enabled along with getting unlimited data, phone, email & text for a price far cheaper than what Verizon offers. Disabling functions and charging more money for service is the sign of a macro style company that simply does not care. Several years ago when I was with Sprint for my personal cell phone, I was displeased with customer support as well as the features provided to me with my phone so I left. Apparently I was not the only one. If you do a little research as to the health of Sprint these days, you’ll find that the company is cleaning house and beginning to offer plans that are extremely competitive. Verizon should learn from the experiences of other large companies and fix these problems before they turn into bigger problems. The only problem with this is that the upper crust of Verizon does not care because when the customer revolt puts the company into turmoil, they will all be gone with their nice fat pensions. This behavior is consistent with any privately run utility.
On another note, the survey site posted above seems to be a futile effort. If every person who singed that survey (myself included) left Verizon, the result in Verizon lost revenue would be somewhere around $2-$3 million. …….small potatoes. Until that number encompasses a significant portion of the 60 million+ subscribers, there will be no change to Verizon’s company policies. Now that they have swallowed up Alltel, expect it to get worse before it gets better.
I know one thing for sure. Seeing how Verizon woks through my corporate blackberry 8830, I will definitely not be choosing them when my personal cell phone account expires next month.
Of course this isn’t the desired solution to the problem, but surely someone out there has figured out a way to crack or bypass the Verizon block on the GPS.
If anyone knows any info on this, please let us all know.
8830 “World Edition” My Ass …
I have never been more irritated by any consumer products company than I have by THIS cellular provider! I was told by the Regional Sales manager of he Southeast region of Verizon that Google Maps was fully functional on the 8830 … HE DID NOT EVEN KNOW HOW SCREWED UP HIS COMPANY IS …
Oh yea, and as for the “world edition” functionality, DO NOT try to use this phone outside the continental US. I am spending time in Edmonton Canada and the VZ Navigator does not work in Canada!!!
Upon confronting the Global Representative, he had to “research the issue” asd he was not sure of the functionality! Two days later he did get back to me only to say “there is nothing to be done, VZ Navigator does not work outside the United States, and Blackberry Maps GPS functionality cannot be unlocked to be functional”… That is a LOAD OF BS because T-Mobile allows BB Maps for FREE and it works EVERYWHERE — I had it in London and it worked PERFECTLY on the T-Mobile network!
I am leaving Verizon just as soon as I can figure out which providers are less focused on screwing their customers.
I urge everyone to file a complaint with the better business bureau. I did, and I got a stupid form letter in the mail with a BS response from Verizon, but if we do enough, maybe the’ll take notice and fix this issue.
There is news of a class action lawsuit regarding Verizon disabling the GPS even though they marketed the phone with “built-in GPS” and made no caveats regarding it’s use. No mention that extra software is required, no mention that an extra fee is required, no mention that the software that comes on the device as supplied by Verizon won’t function with the “built-in GPS”. There is a class action suit filed in November 2007 in US District Court. The BAD news though is that the first action regarding the suit isn’t until January 2009.
I got VZW to give me both a 3 year Navigator credit and refund the price of my 8130 over this issue. When I bought it, they said nothing in their marketing materials about being forced to use their app and only thier app.
Btw, even with the free Navigator now.. I don’t use it. Why? because it sucks. Slow, buggy, a memory hog (and leak) and a poor interface. You’re better off spending that $10/mo on a tom-tom device – they work better and interact better.
I also got that same nonsense reply at first about “we carefully test all applications to ensure your safety, blah, blah, blah and 3rd party apps can give access to intruders, etc..” I told them “umm, isn’t VZ navigator a 3rd party app? the phone is made by RIMM and they include a Maps program designed for the phone.
I agree with a lot of what has been said here. I recently had purchased the new iPhone and the GPS was the coolest feature it had, for me. Unfortunately, AT&T is not even comparable to Verizon in New England. My 25 minute trip in to the office I dropped the same caller 4 times with AT&T, which was repeatable, but only 1 time with Verizon. It pains me so but first and foremost I need to be able to stay on a call with business customer etc. I would be happy to pay more to have true GPS functionality and it is certainly Verizon’s right disable it and require more money to enable it but to offer a replacement program that is virtually unusable is incredibly painful. Still, I have no other options. What I don’t completely understand is that I believe Sprint is also CDMA so shouldn’t it have roughly the same signal as Verizon? Yet, Verizon in my area has far fewer dropped calls. So, I am holding out for the BB Storm and am hoping by some miracle that Verizon decides to unlock the GPS. I know, I am only setting myself up for disappointment. Bottom line Verizon wins. They have the best service by far in my area and that trumps everything else especially when using it as a business phone.
I just want to say you all are have covered everything. I am also a Verizon customer very pissed that I have to purchase another gadget to get involved with Geocache. Come on we paid for these phones so why can’t we pay someone else for there GPS capability. I also hate Navigator, lag time & most locations even a locat theatre not listed. Yes, I did my share of updates. Sorry for all of us who got suckered into false advertisement.
When you have VZNavagator is the GPS enabled for all the other third party software then?
Nope. GPS is only available to VZNav even when you pay to “unlock” it. No “3rd party” (whatever) apps at all, not even BBMaps (3rd party?!?).
I think that Verizon gets the 8830 cheaper from BB with the
GPS REMOVED…
But yet they roll in the $$ by charging us the same for less of a phone.
I asked Verizon reps about this and they all say it has GPS.
I only realized it dint have it until i started looking up aps for my new phone.
It appears based off the new Samsung Omnia I910 and the new touch screen Blackberry for Verizon, it will allow full, unrestricted GPS.
But the downside (and there always is with Verizon!!) you need to purchase a data plan.
Note: I tried to post the image link, and the site won’t let me? here’s what is says:
Only new PDAs/Smartphones devices launched on/after November 14, 2008 will require data feature / plan of $29.99 or more.
Pay as you go, 1x block and 10mb data plan / feature not available for new PDAs/Smartphones devices launched on/after November 14, 2008.
A system edit will prevent new PDA’s/Smartphones from having Pay As you go, 1x block or 10MB data / feature
In 2009, select Mobile Web 2.0 devices will also require a data feature/plan.
The following will be included in the new magalog: Devices with HTML web browsing capability (including Blackberry, Windows mobile, Palm, and select Mobile Web 2.0 devices) require a subscription to either a voice plan or a feature that includes an allowance for sending or receving data, or a data plan.
OMG! I used the email addy that someone posted above (Stephen.Schwed ) and i put my cell # at the bottom to prove i am a Verizon customer…. here’s my email:
Mr. Schwed:
I am a loyal Verizon customer who is very aggravated that the BBNav software that COMES in YOUR cell phones is disabled. I refuse to pay for Navigation that Verizon provides, when BBNAV came with my phone and is part of the reason why I chose this Blackberry. Why does Verizon block the internal GPS in the Blackberry? It’s not because Verizon doesn’t support 3rd party programs, because BBNAV comes with the phones Verizon Wireless sells. It’s not removed, or hidden as a matter of fact.
Although Verizon may provide a good network, I’m getting more and more frustrated with the little nuances of poor customer service that I’m receiving from Verizon, and am considering moving my loyalty elsewhere. Unless, of course, you can say there’s a plan to unlock the internal GPS in Blackberry’s and you can tell me how to go about getting that done.
I look forward to your reply.
Well his secretary CALLED me just now! I sent the email an hour ago! She said the same thing you guys posted… that 3rd party GPS software doesnt ask you first if you want to be located… whereas VZW does. so then she said “you specifically mentioned BB NAV… we are working with them to ask you first if you want to be located… once that implementation is in place, we can open the GPS for BBNAV only. I dont know when that will happen”
So i said “Here’s my issue more than the GPS being blocked…. BB users with Verizon are forced to either pay 10 bucks a month for the service, or have no GPS service. When i had my Voyager, i could pay 2.99 per use if i wanted. That’s not an option for us as Verizon has to activate VZ Nav from the office…. I cant enable it from my phone. So with that said, here’s a customer suggestion…. Blackberry users should either get the service for next to nothing, or free since you blocked the BB version of it. I understand why, as you claim, that Verizon blocked it, but then give us some sort of break by having to use yours.”
She put the suggestion in…. we’ll see what happens. I was shocked they actually CALLED me!
i read online that verizon unlocked the gps functionality on the BB Curve and Pearl today.
Does anyone know if that move was a precursor for the eventual unlocking of the gps function on the BB 8830 ?
If so, when ?
Read online where? That would be huge news if true.
If your fed up don’t pay a fee to get out of your contract with them. They are in breech of contract if they advertised GPS and the phone doens’t support it. Just tell them your cancelling.
OK, I found some posts elsewhere about it.
I fired up BBMaps on my Verizon 8830WE running unofficial OS 4.5.0.101 and BBMaps does now work! No Google Maps yet though, or any other GPS app I’ve tried. Apparently BBMaps application that is included in OS 4.5 and 4.7 (Storm) has been “approved” by Verizon. Official 4.5 OS for 8130 Pearl and 8330 Curve are at Verizon download sites, 8830WE O 4.5 takes some searching elsewhere (but Google is your friend).
$45/month unlimited cellular
NO CREDIT CHECKS
NO CONTRACTS
NO ROAMING FEES
$45 a month unlimited talk and text to:
USA
CANADA
PUERTO RICO
US VIRGIN ISLANDS
http://www.wifiCellularService.com
http://www.EconomyCellular.com
What the heck, this is criminal.
What would they think if they bought a dr car but could not use theback seats without renting a key at $10 a month because of security.
I know the issue here is Verizon blocking GPS on Blackberry phones. Verizon disables GPS on their entire network for all GPS enabled devices, including Blackberry’s, Windows Smartpones and aircards. My Dell E6400 notebook with an embedded aircard has no GPS functionality that Dell built in because GPS is disabled. A great feature of my Lojack is tracking my notebook right on Google Maps doesn’t work because of GPS blocking. Verizon doesn’t stop at GPS blocking. Every device Verizon sells has many features blocked that the hardware manufacturers built into the hardware, like being able to sync with a PC to transfer music files directly to your handset on music capable phones. You are lucky if you have a Verizon phone with a removable storage card for this reason. Instead Verizon customers must subscribe to garbage apps like Vcast or VZ Navigator for monthly service charges on top of your rate plan. Verizon will tell you that GPS is blocked for one reason or another, but disabling GPS and and rewriting the manufacter’s OS to sell their apps is a huge revenue generator for Verizon. GPS is completely open on Sprint and At&t as well as the little guys like Kricket. Verizon has no plans on opening up their network, so it leaves only one option the the customer. MOVE TO ANOTHER CARRIER. This is the only way Verizon will change. When they see they are losing lines of service to the competition. I am as soon as my contracts are up.
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