What Does Verizon Have Against GPS In BlackBerrys?

One word, MONEY. Why give customers free GPS when you can offer your own program and charge for it. Gouging the customer is the Verizon way, after all.

“Developed by the United States Department of Defense, it is officially named NAVSTAR GPS (Contrary to popular belief, NAVSTAR is not an acronym, but simply a name given by Mr. John Walsh, a key decision maker when it came to the budget for the GPS program). The satellite constellation is managed by the United States Air Force 50th Space Wing. The cost of maintaining the system is approximately US$750 million per year, including the replacement of aging satellites, and research and development. Despite this fact, GPS is free for civilian use as a public good.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System

and

“The BlackBerry 8830 smartphone houses a proprietary, autonomous GPS receiver. This
receiver is able to calculate the handheld’s location relying solely on GPS
satellites with no input from cellular towers. While the device does have assisted
GPS, i.e. A-GPS capability, it houses a “full” GPS system similar in nature
to GPS systems used by GPS-only car kits and mobile devices. This is designed to
be accessible by second- and third-party applications such as BlackBerry Maps, Google
Maps, and TeleNav. Such programs do need a wireless data signal to download mapping
information, though they can figure out where the BlackBerry is in terms of latitude
and longitude with just the GPS signal.

The BlackBerry 8830 smartphone as released by Verizon has had this “full”
GPS capability disabled at a software level. Verizon has indicated that they plan
to release their own proprietary GPS mapping solution at a later time; possibly
VZ Navigator. AT&T and T-Mobile have both taken similar routes with their 8800
series handhelds; locking out GPS access for 3rd party programs and only enabling
access to the built-in receiver to the TeleNav program that they sell themselves.

If you would like Verizon to enable GPS functionality on the BlackBerry 8830, I
suggest you contact them and advise them as much.

Thank you again for contacting us, Dennis. If you have any questions or comments,
feel free to contact us.

Sincerely,

Adam
BlackBerry Customer Support
Research In Motion Limited”
http://jkontherun.blogs.com/jkontherun/2007/07/verizon-gets-me.html

Now just like verizon crippling other functions and app’s (bluetooth is only one well known one) verizon feels it can SCREW its customers by crippling functions native to the BB8830. I don’t like that and I sure will not accept RIM and it’s BB’s getting a black eye when verizon turns it around and blames them like verizon turned around the bluetooth crippling on moto. verizon’s games are complete BS and something again needs to be done to give consumers back the freedom and functions they paid for. verizon has proven yet again much more than a slap on the wrist is needed to deal with verizon and their anti-consumer behavior.

That is interesting, except there is one part that is completely inacturate, and that is that the 8800 sold by ATT and T-Mobile is NOT locked. The GPS functionality of that phone is fully accesable to other apps i.e. berry 411, Google Maps etc. and a few more, so he may be right about all the rest but negative on that one. I have no yet seen ATT or T- Mobile lock any standerd features on phones they sell, hoever having had several Verizon phones with software locks I an attest to them doing this as standard practice.

One has to assume the reason is simply a desire for greater revenue; in the case of GPS, to make sure that consumers pay Verizon for that feature.

Of course, even with that they are blowing it with the BB 8830, because they have yet to release their own GPS feature for that device. My guess is that it simply isn’t ready yet, not that they have any benefit to waiting; many people will sign up for it regardless.

Verizon has a great network, but they really do screw the consumer when it comes to these added features. If I were them, I’d worry, because others carriers are also investing in infrastructure improvement, and one has to believe that other carriers will catch up, at least to some extent. That, coupled with the fact that VZW is not on GSM, the de facto world wide standard. At some point you have to feel that VZW will have to transition to the same network system that the vast majority of the world uses, and that will be a hugely costly endeavor.

My confusion comes from the “Why” on Verizon’s behalf. They must know that their customers want GPS, the Pearl, and the Curve

They don’t care thats why. They are big and some will accept whatever Verizon gives them without question.

Saying that do consumers have to force verizon into proper behavior? Or is it just easier to move on to a GSM service provider which has respect, openness, just about the same technology and level of service avaliable.

I go with the later GSM…. Not enough time in the day to fight a company which is really there making money for providing a service

There is NO excuse that verizon can give for crippling the BB8830. The FUD above is enough for most to understand verizon is working against it’s customers, and has been since the verizon merge. NYNEX and Bell Atlantic (after that) didn’t pull this kind of crap. Why anyone with any sense would continue paying verizon a service provider, to provide service while also blocking and crippling service and applications which the phone manufacture designs into the phone sure needs to THINK before allowing verizon to continue to SCREW and then lie about it. verizon needs to THINK about how a service provider should and is expected to treat consumers. It sure doesn’t need to be this way.

“GPS is free for civilian use as a public good.”

“The BlackBerry 8830 smartphone as released by Verizon has had this “full”
GPS capability disabled at a software level.”

“The BlackBerry 8830 smartphone houses a proprietary, autonomous GPS receiver. This receiver is able to calculate the handheld’s location relying solely on GPS
satellites with no input from cellular towers.”

The only way VZW will be forced to change is when this impacts their bottom line. The only way for consumers to speak is to leave them in sufficient numbers to wake them up. I don’t know if that’s going to happen, but sadly that is what it will take.

On a side note, RIM should use its clout to pressure VZW to open up some of these features on their BB devices at least. If Apple can make demands of ATT, surely RIM can make some more modest demands of VZW.

DP,

Turn that note right around on them…feel free to cut and paste.

“Thank you for your interest in maintaining me as your customer. Please be advised that I am interested in using the very latest in technology, products and services. I specifically purcashed the 8830 for this reason. Verizon Wireless does not provide support for the BlackBerry Maps application or 3rd party software that make full use of the 8830’s GPS capabilities as other vendors have. In fact, the 8830’s GPS functionality has been disabled rendering these applications useless anyway. Because you have disabled this feature, I am unable to use a function that I have paid for in the Blackberry 8830. Therefore, I will be switching to a vendor that will provide these applications and services. We understand and apologize for any frustration regarding this but we are only able to provide our money to vendors who meet our needs. You are unwilling to do this at this time. Therefore, you have lowered my expectations of the services that you can provide.”

REV: according to reports, if you enter 999-99-9999 as your social security number during the credit check, you will fail and then be able to get a pay as you go plan.

wouldn’t think that would work, that is.

Rogers in Canada is notorious for pulling this kind of crap. They disable MP3 ringtones so that you have to buy their ringtones, and lock out the music player so that you hvae to use the Rogers Media Player.

They didn’t touch the GPS on the Blackberry 8800, though you have to subcribe to the Rogers GPS service if you want things like turn by turn directions. Just using maps is free though.

Verizon loses!

Dear Steve:

GET A CLUE.

I was in the process of placing an order for the 8830 with your network. After reading this info and verifying it after calling your help lines and web enabled chat. I will go elsewhere.

Effectivly your company BROKE the phone. Wether or your product to repair the phone is free is meaningless. What else did you break that I have not yet learned about?

I too find this extremely frustrating. Granted, I have GPS mapping in my car, but having previously used a BB7100i from Nextel that DOES have enabled GPS, I find I really miss it on my 8830. Adding to the frustration, the sales person in the store told me it does not even HAVE GPS (which I know to be not true) and the BB Maps application that was on the store sample “must have been installed by a customer, it won’t be on your phone”. Well, guess what, they hand my my new phone and RIGHT THERE ON THE SCREEN is BB Maps! Aargh! Buy a 7130 or 8830 from Sprint, and GPS is enabled and BB Maps works awesome. Buy the same device from Verizon (either one), and it’s disabled.

This “security” BS is just that, BS. They say BB Maps is a “3rd party” app, when it comes from RIM and is included on every 8830 that Verizon sells? What???

I too would be very interested in pursuing some action to “encourage” Verizon to remove their disabling of the capability. I am upgrading to the new device software 4.2.2.148 that just came out from Verizon last week, and I see that one of the changes is that the SIM capability can now be unlocked to allow non-Verizon SIMs to be used overseas. I am quit sure this change in policy was a result of so many complaints and lost customers.

Perhaps if there’s a groundswell of user protest (ala the campaign to send bags of nuts to CBS in an effort to save the Jericho TV series, which WORKED! http://www.nutsonline.com/jericho), Verizon can be convinced to do what’s right.

I recommend that folks reading this post send an email to Stephen Schwed (Stephen.Schwed@verizonwireless.com) as one of the posts above has done. This will funnel the message into their consumer relations area and perhaps gain more attention. Doesn’t guarantee results, but can’t hurt. I’m extremely frustrated that VZW has chosen this path… we have dozens of users whom we just provided 8830′s, all of whom were expecting full hardware functionality.

I received my bb8830 from Sprint a week ago, and the GPS feature is not locked. It came preloaded with a Maps program (Tele Atlas) that works pretty good and I was able to install Goggle Maps as well.

Here’s the response I received from my Verizon rep today:

The GPS service that is native to the Global BlackBerry does not have the level of security, protection or performance that Verizon Wireless requires (security precautions are important to prevent unintended use or misuse of location data). From a performance perspective, Verizon Wireless expects its network assisted approach to provide more accurate and faster location information, and better performance indoors and in dense urban areas. Verizon Wireless is very careful to only advertise the features and services available on the devices it sells to ensure that customers get what they want and expect when they purchase a new device. None of the Verizon Wireless advertising on this device referenced mapping tools. Any service offered by Verizon Wireless must pass testing and have the necessary security to protect customers from unintended identification. The current GPS service does not currently meet our security requirements.

Verizon Wireless is currently modifying its own location based mapping service, VZ Navigator, for the BlackBerry 8830. The plan is for VZ Navigator and certain third party GPS applications to be available for the BlackBerry 8830 this year. The Blackberry is currently GPS capable to support Enhanced 911 Phase 2 automatic location identification.

—
Summary: Verizon has a canned response for anyone who asks about the GPS functionality being disabled. The response is clearly intended for an audience that doesn’t understand how GPS actually works (ie, someone who assumes they have to pay for GPS functionality / assume it relies upon cellular info to calculate location).

I have written to Mr. schwed and have advised him that my 2 cell phones and 1 broadband for my computer, as well as DSL at home, and the Blackberry 8830 I have just ordered are all in the path of being canceled. I explained that even though I consider the coverage to be the best, I shall step backwards a bit and go to Sprint because the have not disabled features I am paying for.

I hope he sends a reply. I am not sure what difference my note will make. Probably none, but the few hundred dollars a month I spend on Verizon can easily be moved to another provider.

I hope that people take some time to really complain about this. I plan to send letters to the FCC, FTC, and SEC (because shareholders should know how Verizon is screwing customers too). I encourage all others to do the same. While you are at it, send one to the BBB in your area, maybe a few percentage points drop in their rateing there would get their attention.

Considering how many law professionals use BB’s on a daily basis, I hope that one of them gets the idea that they can launch a class action against VZW and get this resolved or the money for the devices refunded. Something like this could make for some very bad press for VZW if we just tried.

Thanks for the response, although I think you are incorrect. I did some more research, and according to the people on this message board: an external GPS reciever WILL work on the Verizon 8830.

http://forums.crackberry.com/f61/gps-verizon-8830-update-1279/index18.html

There’s a quality one on sale for 40 bucks linked on the forum. It’s a start!

I also recently bought an 8830 and am disappointed about not being able to use the GPS capability. Several of the comments in this forum are targeting the anger (and encouraging others to target their anger) at the powerless Verizon customer service people. The decisions are made deep inside the company by senior people who own revenue numbers for lines of business. The only way to get their attention (as well as the attention of regulatory bodies like another poster here suggested) is to show aggregated consumer clout. Somebody has to start an Internet based signature campaign, collect tens of thousands of on-line signatures and then direct that information to Verizon and the media. Getting media attention will automatically attract consumer groups’ attention because the people in those groups like to see their names in print and faces on TV.

In particular, if there is an anti-trust angle to Verizon’s behavior, getting the Justice Department’s attention to this issue will really shake things up.

Somebody suggested RIM should get involved. RIM won’t fight this battle with Verizon. Unlike Apple which as a new entrant had nothing to lose when it entered into discussions with the carriers, RIM probably gets 20-30% of its business from Verizon. Not something they will want to mess with.

I hope one of you will start a signature campaign

8830 GPS won’t work in Europe.

I did a google search and came up with this from: evdoinfo.com/content/view/2051/64/ and last updated 15 August 2007.

Quoting: “Q – Does GPS work internationally?
A – No, the GPS chipset on the 8830 is disabled when the device is in GSM/GPRS mode due to Qualcomm requirement.”

The only mention of a tie between GPS and CDMA in Blackberry’s own user manual is:

Quoting: “About assisted GPS support
Your BlackBerry® device is designed to support assisted GPS when your device is connected to a CDMA network. If you make an emergency call or your device is in Emergency Callback Mode, an emergency operator might be able to use assisted GPS technology to estimate your location.”

I have been unable to find any info on Blackberry’s website or their user manual that the 8830′s GPS will not work in Europe. In point of fact, in a phone conversation with a local Alltel/Blackberry salesperson he indicated that he too believed that the 8830 GPS would work in Europe. Seems like a deceptive business practise on Blackberry’s part to me.

Here’s an email I received from Verizon on the issue.
Verizon’s stance is I could be tracked. (Sure).
But just like the v710 bluetooth issue, I would bet its so Verizon can make extra money $15 a month on top of the voice and the data plan.
Verizon and Verizon wireless never really diverged.
Since I am locked into the Verizon Wireless contract, I will instead cancel any Verizon service (land-line only).
I recommend others upset with this issue do the same. Money talks.

At Verizon Wireless we value the security and privacy of our subscriber data and user information and we have taken this into account in the development of our location based services offerings. To alleviate concerns regarding access to data by malicious applications and misuse of location information, Verizon Wireless’ location based services utilize a solution that requires each location request to be authenticated and accepted prior to a user’s location being obtained through the network and used by authorized applications.

Verizon Wireless is aggressively working to expand our suite of location based services offerings in a way that does not compromise our dedication to privacy and security yet offers value and flexibility to our customers

Robert Bustamante
Verizon Wireless
WDTS Supervisor
Albuquerque, NM