Is This The BlackBerry 9000?

bluehorseshoe
#1. January 2nd, 2008, at 1:18 PM.

Will be interesting to see what else it has to offer outside of what they currently have today.

attiq
#2. January 2nd, 2008, at 2:34 PM.

If it does’nt have a touchscreen then no point in buying a blackberry 9000.

hellno
#3. January 2nd, 2008, at 3:27 PM.

Whats sort of interesting is that crappy keyboard is clear in the picture but the Blackberry Logo looks to be smudged, and unlike current BB’s. Photoshop?

hellno
#5. January 2nd, 2008, at 4:09 PM.

“I am sure that RIM will have some other features that will make everyone want a 9000.”

Or not…..

As you said above Robb, RIM got most things right with the Curve, this device pictured above (fake?) doesn’t seem to have any thing over the Curve nor does it have anything for the iPhone in that form factor. Perception means alot, at least till the device can prove itself, and RIM BB9000 with Moto Q2 style isn’t gonna turn many heads.. With the iPhone being introduced for almost a year now, and being on the market for almost half that, not one mobile device manufacture has come up with a product even close. The touchscreen is like a fine wine, it gets better with age, it’s quickly becoming the feature customers are looking for. Apple raised the bar with the iPhone. RIM is going to have to do something and show they have the technology and the device design to compete whats picture above shows neither.

Thought
#6. January 2nd, 2008, at 8:37 PM.

It seems very hard to improve upon the 83xx form factor for a full keyboard BB. It’s kind of like with flip phones; really, there hasn’t been much innovation in their design since the RAZR, because it’s hard to improve upon that. Other than that, it’s just tweaking here and there.

RIM needs to focus on better software and improved features to drive sales.

As for the idea of a touch screen, that seems like a silly idea. They have no expertise in this area, the BB system works well with a physical keypad, and they invite inevitable comparisons to Apple, a battle in which they cannot win.

Thought
#7. January 2nd, 2008, at 8:45 PM.

hellno: to add to your remarks about how no “mobile device manufacture has come up with a product even close” to the touchscreen iPhone: there is a good reason why.

A company cannot just magically conjure up this technology overnight. Apple has a multiple years headstart in their touchscreen technology. Their OS is an offshoot of their desktop OS, which has been in development for even more years. Their design expertise stretches even further back.

No vendor can make up for that advantage quickly. And by the time any vendor does catch up to where Apple is today, then Apple will have gone on to the next level. It’s like with the iPod; as long as Apple is a company determined to push the envelope, which they will be for at least as long as Jobs is around, then no one will come close to the iPhone in creating a touchscreen device.

jhp2
#8. January 2nd, 2008, at 8:49 PM.

And typical of apple, they make a great CONSUMER device with limited, for now, corporate utility. Soft of like a Mac…..

hellno
#9. January 2nd, 2008, at 9:02 PM.

Thought I agree…
jhp2 I DO NOT agree… Facts are much better than fiction

2008… iPhone & The Mobile Landscape
http://www.iphonefreak.com/2008/01/2008-iphone-the.html

Another interesting read:
Using Apple’s iPhone in the Enterprise, Microsoft and RIM can’t even take enterprise users for granted now.
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q2.07/42942B05-388C-437C-AC72-90E2407F3078.html

bluehorseshoe
#10. January 2nd, 2008, at 9:27 PM.

@ thought

Here’s food for thought…RIM could always buy Palm and gain that touchscreen knowledge, and integrate certain components into theirs (the good ones of course).

bluehorseshoe
#11. January 2nd, 2008, at 9:31 PM.

@ thought part 2

If apple had such a headstart in touchscreen technology, then they’d have had a tablet out on the market a lot sooner than the iPhone. Hopefully that will change this month when they announce the ‘new’ laptop.

hellno
#12. January 2nd, 2008, at 9:37 PM.

RIM “buying Palm” would be more a curse and waste of money for RIM than any help. There is obsolete touchscreen knowledge (like Palms) and then there is touchscreen knowledge like Apple’s multi-touch. RIM is years ahead of Palm in the mobile device design market, the problem RIM has (as Thought pointed out) is Apple is years ahead of everyone with the iPhone:

“No vendor can make up for that advantage quickly. And by the time any vendor does catch up to where Apple is today, then Apple will have gone on to the next level……. no one will come close to the iPhone in creating a touchscreen device.

hellno
#13. January 2nd, 2008, at 9:53 PM.

Q: Will there be an iPhone?
Jobs: “One never knows. We don’t usually discuss products we haven’t announced.”
Q: What do you think of the tablet PC?
Jobs: “We’re not sure the tablet PC will be successful. It’s turned into a notebook that you can write on. Do you want to handwrite all your e-mail? We have all the technology ourselves to do that - we just don’t know whether it will be successful.

Brad Hamilton:
[dumping out cold fries] “I shall serve no fries before their time.”

Apple could have had many tablets out on the market, we’ve all seen the windoz crap tablets out there but this is Apple we’re talking about and Steve Jobs has a knack for “I shall serve no fries before their time.”

But 3rd parties will:
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Modbook

bluehorseshoe
#14. January 2nd, 2008, at 9:54 PM.

@ hellno

Buying a knowledge base and actually using the OS are two different things. As for catching up to someone in the technology sector, Microsoft has proven how someone so far ahead can be caught and even surpassed.

Personally, I don’t think its RIM’s intention to take Apple’s market, rather retain their current market, expand to other countries and dip into the consumer market as much as they can.

I’m with Robb on this one, I wouldn’t trade my keypad Pearl or Curve for a touchscreen, Apple or Microsoft. As for Apple, I just hope they announce a new line in the Mac Pro series.

hellno
#15. January 2nd, 2008, at 10:09 PM.

bluehorseshoe,

You missed my point that touchscreen technology between Palm and Apple is completely different, and on that level the OS doesn’t matter.

M$ was never ahead of Apple or any other company in technology, just in sales. Everyday people are learning they made the wrong choice and have been dumping $$$ for M$ inferior products for all those years.

So if you and Robb wouldn’t trade the cream of the RIM crop (IMO) the Pearl and Curve, why is the BB community so crazed over RIM’s answer to the iPhone? It’s a buz, on one hand I too don’t think RIM should or even try to come up with touchscreen answer to the iPhone, but on the other hand RIM will have to at least try and do so just to keep up, giving RIM fans a alternative, and like you said “maintain their current market” We’ve been through this a few years ago when the RIM fan base freaked at the Pearl and no more scroll wheel. RIM knows they need to innovate or end up like Palm….

Babar Abbas
#17. January 3rd, 2008, at 5:48 AM.

Well, anyways this touchscreen thing is good, Is the pic just a guess as to what it will look like, or have you received any tips as to a touch screen?

Thought
#18. January 3rd, 2008, at 9:46 AM.

bluehorseshoe: I have to say that I agree with hellno: RIM buying Palm would be more of a headache and waste of money than its worth. Palm has very little to offer in the way of touchscreen technology compared to the iPhone.

As for a tablet, I think Apple could do one, but to slightly change hellno’s phrase, Steve doesn’t want to serve any fine wine before its time.

Isn’t it interesting that even on a site dedicated to the BB, we often end up discussing Apple? I bet this is also true on sites that discuss Windows products, etc. But on Apple sites I don’t think they spend much time discussing the BB.

What this means to me is this: right now in the consumer electronics field no one has the brand value of Apple. Apple seems to be the gold standard and only getting stronger every day.

The BB is a beloved device; RIM has a great market and an important application. For portable email there is nothing better. But Apple is in its own orbit when it comes to capturing the imagination of the average consumer.

hellno
#20. January 3rd, 2008, at 7:11 PM.

Thought,

You are so right! ” Palm has very little to offer” Or at the very least IF Palm has any technology to offer they sure have yet to take advantage of it.

You are YET AGAIN so right! “Apple seems to be the gold standard and only getting stronger every day.” Currently RIM BB’s are thought to do email better than the rest, but the balance of device worth is tipping towards Apple’s iPhone, which can do much more, and with IMAP email can hold it’s own against RIM BB’s. There is a fine line between “Consumer Electronics” and “Business Electronics” Apple and At&t are showing the the iPhone is much more than “consumer”.

bluehorseshoe
#22. January 3rd, 2008, at 8:01 PM.

LOL…@ hellno

I guess I need to explain things as if I were speaking to a 5 year old.

First off, I’m not suggesting that the Palm OS be used as a replacement, but rather the point that the knowledge base of touchscreen technology can be purchased and utilized to expedite the process of getting the technology with their current platform to marketplace. Now, of course I wouldn’t expect you to understand any of this because I already have read your posts and pattern your writing to the editorial expertise of anyone at the NY Post. Buying Palm is only an example of how a company can take a knowledge base and turn it into the marketplace in a short period of time. An option, not a solution.

Secondly, the advantage of the iPhone is it’s browser, music and video capabilities. What else does it have over the BB? Let’s list the issues with the iPhone, shall we?

1. Touch screen keypad. Depends on the person, but I, like many others prefer the physical touchpad itself.
2. Non-swap battery. After watching one of my favorite movies on the iPhone, I can only hope I have enough juice to field a couple of calls without running to an outlet. Nice going.
3. No 3G. It’s been out for how long, yet not part of the package? Imagine how much faster you’d get those pages with 3G. Better yet, the ability to use it as a modem for your laptop if the need presents itself.
4. No memory expansion. Great, now that I’ve loaded the 8G with a movie or two and a bunch of songs, how else can I expand?
5. Security. It’s a derived from their OS. It’s going to be a target. People have already hacked it. It’s a hackers dream like MS’ OS.
6. AT&T. Sorry, but many like them, and many don’t. For those that don’t, it becomes an issue.

Now, how you determine that the iPhone is much more than consumer? That’s right…I heard Goldman Sachs is handing them out so their employees can watch videos all day on their phone. Lockheed Martin is also using them so employees can take photos of important government documents and contracts. Or how about it just being a target for hacks due to it’s popularity and the fact it’s interface is their OS?

The iPhone will touch compnaies that don’t require some of the lockdowns and concerns I briefly mentioned above. But for the rest of the corporate world, unless they come out with a ‘corportate’ version, they won’t touch RIM.

@ Thought

Getting products to the marketplace, in a short period of time…impossible? Tell that to Google.

back @ hellno

MS and it’s ‘inferior’ products? While I’m not a fan of MS, over 90% of the world is connected to them. I haven’t exactly seen a robust Apple network out there. And in most cases…there’s an MS component included. And how about MS Office? Are you kidding me? Who comes close? I’m not a fan, but I’m not an ignorant fool either.

That’s it. Done here for today. bluehorseshoe out.

hellno
#23. January 3rd, 2008, at 9:13 PM.

bluehorseshoe,

Yet again you must be reminded to keep on the topic and that your thoughts of other posters are not needed nor wanted. If you can’t post properly don’t post at all. The rest of us read post after post of your ignorance, yet we don’t post our judgement of you.

Funny, Thought rightly pointed out the iPhone as the gold standard in the smart mobile device market, and that all threads about RIM BB’s have the iPhone mentioned. No need to get upset (again) and (again) start ranting, raving in defense of the RIM Blackberry. Not sure why you feel the need to bring the Mac into the thread, but believe me you’ve proven your thoughts on Apple networks and the Mac are just as clouded/bias as your thoughts on the iPhone.

iPhone making inroads in the corporate world
http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/12/07/iphone-making-inroads-in-the-corporate-world

Apple iPhone Winning Corporate Fans
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,140383-page,1/article.html

Also YOUR “issues” and thoughts about the iPhone are being proven daily to be YOUR OWN “ISSUES” only aka FUD. Millions of iPhone customers (those actually which own the iPhone as their day to day work horse) don’t see things the same. (Apple says it is on track to sell 10 million iPhones by next year.)

Don’t continue to prove yourself a “ignorant fool”, Not to be critical of your posts but the reasons about security and “issues” with the iPhone are at best weak, and at worst proven FUD.

Watch videos on a BB? You can do that….
Take photos on a BB? You can do that too….
You don’t think the BB OS or the BB is a target for hacks? Everything is a target, but OS X hasn’t been cracked yet (since 1999) There is no argument that the BB OS is not secure, but FUD thinking that the iPhone is any less secure than the BB OS is grade school fan boy FUD.

As for robust Apple networks, please search before making ignorant comments, either that or your making more FUD.
http://www.apple.com/itpro/
http://www.apple.com/business/
http://www.apple.com/pro/

There is ZERO need for M$ or MS Office, this little company Sun Microsystems (ever hear of them?) provides a free, open and high-quality alternative with NeoOffice, and OpenOffice based on StarOffice. M$ sure has the sheep under their control, it’s the modern day “If you believe that, I’ve got a bridge to sell you”. Poor M$ Sheep.

bluehorseshoe / FUD Debunked

Thought
#24. January 3rd, 2008, at 9:44 PM.

I think both hellno and bluehorseshoe have their points. While the iPhone is the gold standard for consumers, I also believe that large companies requiring security lockdowns will stick with the BB. Not to mention that most companies do not want to give their rank and file employees a phone that may be as big a distraction as the iPhone.

However, with regards to bluehorsehoe’s observation that Google has indeed brought products to the market in a short time; I would contend that they have an advantage in turnaround in that they only produce software, and for the web at that, where they do not need to develop the underlying software languages or OS’ used. With mobile devices, you have to develop hardware, which typically takes longer. And you also develop the underlying software OS, which again takes less time than developing for the web.

As an example, a good young computer whiz or two can get on their computers and develop a really good web app. But they cannot develop a viable pocket computer for the market.

So you can put out cool stuff on the web in a lot shorter time than building a new device with operating system. Also, Google is the trailblazer, much like Apple, already in first place. So they don’t have to fight from behind. With Apple, as other companies strive to catch up, Apple is not staying still, and is going to the next level.

So the BB isn’t going away anytime soon; they will own the corporate market for some time now, even though Apple may make some inroads. But on the consumer side, the iPhone will definitely remain the gold standard.

John
#25. January 3rd, 2008, at 9:45 PM.

nice gadget

hellno
#26. January 3rd, 2008, at 10:10 PM.

What I continue to point out is Palm’s touchscreen technology would not “expedite the (the) process of getting the technology with their (RIM’s) current platform to marketplace.” Or be of any value to RIM, SInce Palm’s touchscreen technology is not up to date, and is not as advanced as Apple’s multi-touch. RIM sure doesn’t need Palm to help RIM continue being RIM. Palm shows year after year that they are broken and as a RIM customer, I wouldn’t wish Palm on them. Palm would be a money pit, and a crutch to RIM.

JHP2
#27. January 3rd, 2008, at 10:36 PM.

Hellno,

You linked to a story that proved my point. The first line of the second story, “The iPhone is quite obviously targeted at consumers. ” In the future that may well change, as your stories now. But I specifically said, “for now”. And that second story discussed issues that need to be addressed by IT managers, not that they were solved. IMAP push email is not the same as having a BES or GoodLink. Only when these issues are resolved will corporate use take off. In fact the authors lament that those solutions are proprietary and the world would be a much better place if we all just adopted “Open Standards” which they seem to define as whatever the iPhone uses. From the story, which you
Provisioning and Revocation.
Apple currently only provides its own client for provisioning and revocation, and it is designed entirely for the needs of consumers. It’s iTunes, and it sets up iPhones directly with Apple’s own provisioning servers.

IT groups invested in push solutions from Good, BEA, or Microsoft won’t be able to set up or revoke iPhone users using their internal proprietary systems. That’s a drawback for companies interested in the iPhone as a low cost mobile web platform. They’ll have to consider the needs of securing their devices against the benefits of an open mobile platform.

After the iPhone’s initial rollout, expect Apple to offer the same iTunes provisioning tools to local administrators, in a similar manner to how Apple adapted the iTunes Store to serve higher education with iTunes U.

Until Apple does this, enterprise adoption is going to suffer.

JHP2
#28. January 3rd, 2008, at 10:43 PM.

Hellno,

BTW, this is not a calendaring solution for users at organizations that use Exchange
“That will mean iPhone users will only get calendar information when they sync to their computer, although live access to their inbox via Exchange’s Outlook Web should be serviceable using the iPhone’s Safari web client.”

Given the limits of OWA and the fact that not all users have OWA accounts, it is a non-starter. And the author’s solution?
“In the near future, Apple will be releasing its iCal Server, which offers an open source, standards-based CalDAV calendaring solution to workgroups. IT groups interested in avoiding the trap of proprietary vendor lock-in would benefit from considering alternatives to Exchange Server, in large part because of its expense.”

You mean to tell me that they are relying on MS IT shops to adopt another solution for calendaring? Right…..

iPhone is a good start. But until it works with tools that are already deployed, enterprise adoption will suffer.

bluehorseshoe
#29. January 3rd, 2008, at 10:53 PM.

@ hellno…

Zero need for MS? You’ve now proven your stupidity to the extent of making stupid people look smart. Sun Microsystems? LOL. Yeah…Scott did a good job putting them on top of the world. If their product was that good and in demand, their stock price would hover between $4-6 (before their 1 for 4 reverse stock split). Companies that produce solid products don’t go backwards.

When you learn something about technology aside from the iPhone, let us know.

@ Thought…

Software is the biggest obstacle, but also the easiest to purchase to gain ground in a particular sector, release a product, etc. Example: Oracle’s purchase of PeopleSoft and the integration with Oracle Financials as a selling point. Can’t beat them…buy them. MS does it. Google does it. RIM could do it to. Palm was just an example. I gave up on their OS 3 years ago… And speaking of Google…at one point they did fight from behind. Now they are winning. RIM has the hardware side already in place…adding, developing, or buying (they have deep pockets these days) the software side gives them the capability. Whether it’s better than what’s out there in the market would be open to question.

jhp2
#30. January 3rd, 2008, at 11:24 PM.

Hellno,

Read this again,

“Apple currently only provides its own client for provisioning and revocation, and it is designed entirely for the needs of consumers. It’s iTunes, and it sets up iPhones directly with Apple’s own provisioning servers.”

Get the consumer part? Do you really see an IT department using iTunes to provision devices? iTunes?

bluehorseshoe
#35. January 4th, 2008, at 12:08 AM.

@ jhp2

hellno is just a walking advertisement for the iPhone. No reasoning, just steadfast ignorance. Can you imagine a company IT technician coming to your desk to install iTunes in order for you to activate? Better yet, then the employee downloads a movie and some music and expenses it to the company because it was installed by the company IT department. Let me use my corporate credit card…

A bit extreme perhaps, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see one or two of those stories fly by…it’s a consumer phone. Heck, it doesn’t even have a solution for opening word or excel documents due to it’s fixed memory. Need to store it on site, then open it in the browser.

hellno
#37. January 4th, 2008, at 12:37 AM.

provisioning devices can be done in other ways. The old traditional way required some IT departments to make themselves involved. Many business users don’t need IT departments help in setting up smartphones. Where is the IT line? Do IT departments need to be involved with mobile devices?

http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=6064
“There are applications you can think of–field technicians in areas with poor connectivity who need access to large amounts of data–but those are probably the exception, not the rule. Most road warriors could use Web-based tools with little loss in productivity. I have been amazed at the richness of some of the iPhone applications that I’ve seen and it’s only been a few months.

Creating Web-based applications and data might not work for every enterprise, but if it works for you, then the iPhone, and it’s future copycats, might prove to be a superior platform. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that just because the iPhone doesn’t work like the last generation of mobile devices that it’s not right for your organization. Regardless, the iPhone portends changes for the mobile market and it’s worth paying attention to what that means for your enterprise.”

Nemertes Research Group Inc. sees the following impacts:

For enterprises: Users will ask for the iPhone, but wait until security, usability and management issues are resolved before deploying. Also consider waiting until Apple resolves the anticipated “version 1.0” bugs.

For vendors: Smartphone competitors will stress enterprise feature sets that Apple currently can’t match. Expect downward pricing pressure on RIM, Treo, Motorola and Nokia (NYSE:NOK) smartphones.

For investors: Just as the success of the iPod led to a robust ecosystem of third-party products, we expect the same to happen for the iPhone. Look for opportunities to invest in companies bringing accessories to market, especially those that can solve enterprise challenges.

hellno
#39. January 4th, 2008, at 12:52 AM.

Now come on bluehorseshoe there are others with ideas which are correct. Just because you didn’t post them or think them up doesn’t make them ignorant or any less the facts.

Again no one at RIMarkable is looking for your thoughts and dreams about other members posted (each posts shows your “steadfast ignorance”)

One could say someone getting upset and posting about a device they don’t own, nor have any personal experience with is questionable and shows ones “steadfast ignorance”, and fanboy bias.

bluehorseshoe
#40. January 4th, 2008, at 12:57 AM.

That’s funny. Business users don’t need help in setting up smart phones? Where do you live? In a box? Get with reality, while one or two maybe gadget freaks who can handle their own, most employees don’t have a clue on setting up and connecting to the workplace, etc. They weren’t hired to do that, its the IT departments job.

I can see it now…

Download iTunes, activate phone, download music, use corporate credit card, don’t bother opening excel documents, no can do. Please don’t call IT, studies show end users don’t need help.

Sincerely,
Hellno
IT Manager and idiot at large

bluehorseshoe
#41. January 4th, 2008, at 1:07 AM.

And to follow up on your last post, you only speak of one thing. How great the iPhone is. Pros and cons to all things, but you fail to see any. Your comments? The iPhone makes a great holiday gift. Your an advertisement.
Don’t quit your day job at McDonald’s, your career as an IT professional is nil.

jhp2
#43. January 4th, 2008, at 8:44 AM.

Hellno,

re; “Where is the IT line? Do IT departments need to be involved with mobile devices?” They draw the line when they want to manage the corporate IT environment and keep a consistant image on their systems. The companies I have worked for, do not allow admin rights in many cases making installing iTunes impossible. Many do not want it on their for productivity reasons. Lastly, the IT department gets involved when you want to access the organization’s applications, Calendar, email, etc. It is theri job to be involved if you are trywant to access the company’s assests. They also get involved to help the inevitable person who has trouble installing and provisioning a device. And if that organization does not have iPhone skills, they will not support it. These are all issues that had to be addressed when I was selling BB’s and Treo’s as well as wireless WAN connection cards.

Are you in the corporate world?

bluehorseshoe
#44. January 4th, 2008, at 8:47 AM.

He’s in the 5th dimension.

jhp2
#45. January 4th, 2008, at 8:49 AM.

Bluehorse,

Point about Hellno is well taken. Never understood why he lurked on a BlackBerry blog when he was an iPhone fanboy.

Your points about using iTunes in the workplace for provisioning are right on. The iPhone will likely morph into a more corporate friendly device. But as Hellno’s on articles discuss, there are issues like provisioning, calendaring, and push email that need to be addressed. These are reason several of my peers at work use an iPhone for personal use but a BlackBerry for work.

I am often struck by how his comments seem to reflect someone who is not yet in the corporate world.

hellno
#46. January 4th, 2008, at 12:01 PM.

Girls, you seem to overly glorify the “corporate world”. I got news for you, look around at all the IT articles about staff members either wanting or just side stepping IT and making the iPhone their main phone replacing their BB’s.

Girls, you seem to overly judgemental of others opinions and the reasons why others post here. Is it not possible to own several BB’s AND iPhones and be able to share opinions with others? (Sadly it becomes FUD and fanboy time when it’s 2 individuals who don’t have day to day experience with the device they are grandstanding about, and feel so threatened by others posting first hand knowledge of the device.

“lurking”? NOPE… There are more than a few here with experience and ownership of both Blackberrys AND iPhones. (Even our host Robb enjoy’s his iPhone) Instead of the FUD, name calling, and derogatory personal comments, it would serve you and RIMarkable better to do your best to try to read and understand comments from those in the know, instead of showing RIMarkable constant ignorance. RIM has a workhorse in the Blackberry, the problem is it’s being more and more clear so does Apple. As Thought says… Apple’s iPhone is the goldstandard. The BB9K as pictured above is not the answer to the iPhone as rumored.

http://www.rimarkable.com/archives/category/iphone

bluehorseshoe
#47. January 4th, 2008, at 12:40 PM.

@ hellno

Let’s skip the question if you work in a corporate environment. The question should really be…”Do you even have a job?” You simply don’t understand the difference between an article that someone writes and perhaps doesn’t use (like most Wall Street analyst for example) and real life experience. Believe everything you read? You really need to get in touch with reality. And nobody is knocking the iPhone, it’s a great consumer gadget and phone, the same way the BB is in the corporate world. Yes, I’m sure some companies will use the iPhone, just as people use the BB for personal use. Just like my girl Lindsey Lohan. LOL…

jhp2
#48. January 4th, 2008, at 12:58 PM.

Hellno,

This is rich coming from you “name calling, and derogatory personal comments” seeing as that is a good part of what you do (’Girls”). And you never addressed my main point. I claimed the iPhone was a consumer device at this time. You claimed I was wrong yet your own referenced article proved me right. I then made the additional points as to why there is a lack of corporate adoption and how your article reiterated my contention and that is was not yet resolved. So, man up and admit I was making a valid point. And read the articles you post here before calling someone else wrong.

jhp2
#49. January 4th, 2008, at 1:04 PM.

Hellno,

No one disputes that people want the iPhone for the corporate world. The point is that it currently is better suited for consumers. You are correct, I do not own an iPhone as my primary need is for a business device. I checked it out and even used one for a few days and found the iPhone wanting vs. the Blackberry in several areas such as keyboard, data speed, push mail capability and dare I say it, network coverage with ATT.

Overly glorify the corporate world? Hardly. However, it is a place many of us visit each day for many hours. You?

hellno
#50. January 4th, 2008, at 4:46 PM.

“You simply don’t understand the difference between an article that someone writes and perhaps doesn’t use (like most Wall Street analyst for example) and real life experience”

You mean like someone judging open source software based on the stock market points of the company which owns source code of the commercial version? You mean like someone who posts there is need for M$ in every technology product and network? You mean like someone which doesn’t understand Palm’s touchscreen technology is of no value when compared with state of the art touchscreen technology of the iPhone, yet posts RIM should buy Palm anyway? Mixed in with more FUD, grandstanding, ignorance, and personal shots from the trolls of RIMarkable. Who “Believe everything (they) you read? (and) “really need to get in touch with reality.”

Its your OPINION only as to which device is “Corporate vs. Consumer” yet can’t grasp that the iPhone can and is being used in Corporate settings with success. Throwing around labels is so sadly typical. The Curve? The Pearl? having a camera knocks them out of being “Corporate” devices if playing by fanboy ignorant rules.

Apple with the iPhone and iTunes has shown that setting up and syncing smartphones is simple, so simple “Corporate” management can do a little cost cutting starting with the small number of ignorant, un-coorperative, IT’s which would rather FUD and make problems instead doing their job and finding solutions.

Nobody is taking anything away from our Blackberry devices they still are the best option for email. It’s just Apple with the iPhone has come up with a device which excels at everything else AND with IMAP email, and other solutions comes very close, if not close enough to the Blackberry’s capabilities but the iPhone adds so much more capabilities that are expected in a mobile smart device.

Luckly RIMarkable filters those in the know, from those fanboys which are stuck on technology and devices which have been passed by or stuck on features which just don’t matter, and worse get insulted when advances in technology and others opinions differ from their own. That is also reflected in the many articles calling BS on IT’s and others FUD about the iPhone, as the technology and device continues to prove itself and their opinions wrong.

jhp2
#51. January 4th, 2008, at 5:18 PM.

Hellno,

Good to see that you can post now that school is out. It appears that in your rambling post, you mixed Bluehorseshoe and I up. That said, I will try to be nice and not say anything too personal, like you do all the time, because I do not want you to have to run to Robb for help.

“s your OPINION only as to which device is “Corporate vs. Consumer” yet can’t grasp that the iPhone can and is being used in Corporate settings with success.”
It was also the opinion of the author of your referenced article. In fact, it was the first sentence. And instead of saying to me, it is your opinion and I disagree, you jumped in my grill and said I was wrong. No gray area there. Guess what, that is an opinion as well. You do that a lot, tell people that they are wrong because your opinion is the only one that matters. Candidly it is rude as hell and one of the reasons I engage with you even though I know i should not waste my time.

No one has said that the iPhone is not used by some corporate users. Rather that is a device targeted at consumers and is not being adopted as widely by corporate users for reasons I, and your articles spelled out.

“Apple with the iPhone and iTunes has shown that setting up and syncing smartphones is simple, so simple “Corporate” management can do a little cost cutting starting with the small number of ignorant, un-coorperative, IT’s which would rather FUD and make problems instead doing their job and finding solutions.” That is silly. Corporate IT department are able to manage large numbers of users because they have tools to do so…iTunes is not such a tool. Not many organizations are going to lay off Exchange admins because they do not embrace a tool that does not sync with Exchange. Having a small number of users on a non-standard product is what creates problems. iPhone users will have to go it alone because they will not likely get support from their IT department. If you want to use an iPhone in my company, that is your choice. But, you are on your own to set it up and since we are not allowed admin rights, installing iTunes is not an option. However, we have a BES and use Active Sync and IT will support and assist you in setting those up.

Yes, an iPhone user can provision easily and do not usually need handholding. However, as the article YOU referenced points out, the iPhone still does not do corporate calendaring and standard push email. Until those are addressed, corporate adoption will lag. Oh, and by addressed, I mean that the iPhone begins to work with tools already deployed.The Curve and Pearl are fully deployable in the corporate space as they can be set up to run on a BES in a few minutes over the air. My co-workers carry both. Your comment about them is silly.

Last, lest you think I am Bill Gate’s spawn, this was typed on an Intel iMac using Safari.

jhp2
#52. January 4th, 2008, at 5:29 PM.

Hellno,

Long story short, corporate adoption of the iPhone will begin to really take off when the device works with IT applications (email, calendar, databases, etc) that are already in place rather than asking organizations to roll out new tools just to manage them. Even if the tools are low in cost, there is a cost in time and implementation. Many people will tell you that the most important thing they use every day is their calendar (Lotus Notes, MS Outlook, Groupwise, etc). If you cannot easily sync without extra steps or workarounds, you will lose a substantial potential user base right there. When Apple begins to work with those tools out of the box like other solutions, it will take off.. My bet is Apple is working on doing just that.

hellno
#53. January 4th, 2008, at 7:05 PM.

you you you you…. This is not YOUmarkable or Imarkable…..

Come on post about the topic not about your opinion or critique of others since like the other, no one cares what your opinion is about others, no need to post to someone, RIMarkable is not a personal email service. Interesting you seem to feel the need to constantly follow up your grandstand post with yet another grandstanding post.

Pointing out ones opinions as dead wrong is called for especially when reading negative FUD and ignorant posts by those which have no clue about what they talk about, especially when they comment about a device they don’t own, nor use. Thinking, hoping they somehow know better than those people with both devices which are being posted about. Posting BS for grandstanding, and for attention.

Tales of how it’s done IT wise at one company will differ from what other corporations/business’s do. As one of the article pointed out web based app’s and data are a option for discussion. Everyone doesn’t need a BES server to be in sync, there are many other ways to keep employees with the info they need.

“No one has said that the iPhone is not used by some corporate users”
vs
“And typical of apple, they make a great CONSUMER device with limited, for now, corporate utility. Soft of like a Mac…..”

Not exactly a not used, but sure is based on opinion, grandstanding and WRONG.

You two keep up the personal attacks, desperately trying to get off topic. Yet in all reality the RIM Blackberry is completely outmatched when compared with the Apple iPhone, one is a smartphone with great email, the other is a hand sized computer which has completely raised the bar in smart mobile devices and is the gold standard which other devices are judged. When judging the pictured BB9000 vers the iPhone (like we were doing before the grandstanding and rants) I hope for RIM this device is not their next gen device, also really hope for RIM that the rumored BB9000 (as pictured) is not RIM’s rumored answer to the iPhone.

jhp2
#54. January 4th, 2008, at 8:38 PM.

Aren’t you the cheeky one when the comment pages at this blog are dominated by you , you, you and your opinions that are sometimes tangentially backed by a link. Note posting a link to an Apple business network and server does not make it a robust corporate option.

As usual you make no sense and ramble on. I addressed web based options like OWA which th earticle discusses. It has limited functionality vs. full Outlook. Woul you tether an iPhone at work to get you calendar? Or go to OWA each time you needed ot check your calendar or get contacts. Maybe you would but as your article acknowleges, most will not. That is why they were advocating for the adoption of new applications to address these issues.

I use the example at one company to illustrate typical IT at many organizations. How do I know this? Because I work with them on a regular basis or have worked for them. What experience do you have regarding management of corporate applications wireless and otherwise? As usual, your experience is valuable but everyone elses is irrelevant in your mind. Note that I did say I tried an iPhone and chose not to purchase it. Not the same as owning one but clearly I have test driven it. That is probably more than you have done in terms of working with organizations on wireless rollouts of smart devices and/or connection cards.

I stand by my statement about Apple and limited corporate utility. You have yet to prove me wrong. At best, we have a difference of opinion. If you want an opinion, here is one: if the iPhone was the corporate tool you make it out to be, people would not need ot carry a Blackberry for work and an iPhone for personal use. And I am smart enough to know that points to a weakness in the BB as a consumer device which is something they are atempting to address.

And as far as hijacking a thread you assjack, this post was about the BB 9000.

Hellno, like a teenager, you should take over the world now while you still think you know everything…..

Ripley
#55. January 5th, 2008, at 8:56 AM.

I have been reading this site for a few weeks now and it seems like some of the commentators leave more comments than the author writes articles.

The owners of this site should probably moderate the comments a bit more closely….

hellno
#57. January 5th, 2008, at 12:36 PM.

Robb,

I hope you don’t, I hope you don’t have to moderate more closely. I’m sure most would agree we can discuss RIM, BB’s, even iPhone’s here with out calling others “assjack(s)” RIMarkable would be much friendlier if a small few here remember the discussions are about wireless objects and service NOT people, and NOT grandstanding.

JHP2
#58. January 5th, 2008, at 1:06 PM.

Hellno,

Please….do not play the affronted one here. You grandstand more than anyone and as I said before, you are plain rude which is why I swing back so hard. Referring to other as “Girls” and treating those with whom you do not agree disrespectfully in this and several other threads where we have run into each other is what got you pinged by me.

JHP2
#59. January 5th, 2008, at 1:07 PM.

Robb,

To you and your other readers, my apologies.

hellno
#60. January 5th, 2008, at 1:35 PM.

JHP2, there is no excuse for your poor actions. Any adult knows you can’t blame your piss poor actions on someone else.

If “Girls” upsets you, better grow a thicker skin or set your browser to http://www.POWDERPUFFmarkable.com

Another word of wisdom, your “swing back so hard” does NOTHING, it’s not at all called for, and is disrespectful to RIMarkable, Robb, and everyone else here. Know your role. Better to read, understand then either agree or disagree, leave it and move on. You have a chip on your shoulders because of a post on a open forum, where wireless devices are the topic? RIMArkable is not the place for you to turn posts around to make personal jabs, attacks and to desperately try and grandstand when your opinion doesn’t match anothers.

No apologies since like posts they matter not, move on and adjust your actions… or your browser.

JHP2
#61. January 5th, 2008, at 1:39 PM.

Hellno, there is no excuse for your poor actions. Any adult knows you can’t blame your piss poor actions on someone else.

If “assjack” upsets you, better grow a thicker skin or set your browser to http://www.POWDERPUFFmarkable.com

Another word of wisdom, your “disrespect towards others” does NOTHING, it’s not at all called for, and is disrespectful to RIMarkable, Robb, and everyone else here. Know your role. Better to read, understand then either agree or disagree, leave it and move on. You have a chip on your shoulders because of a post on a open forum, where wireless devices are the topic? RIMArkable is not the place for you to turn posts around to make personal jabs, attacks and to desperately try and grandstand when your opinion doesn’t match anothers.

No apologies since like posts they matter not, move on and adjust your actions… or your browser.

I am done on this topic. I have a tissue if you need it.

hellno
#62. January 5th, 2008, at 1:44 PM.

JHP2 again you show us all just what type of person you truly are. Keep that tissue, your going to need it.

JHP2
#63. January 5th, 2008, at 1:55 PM.

Hellno,
The irony is too rich to let go of just yet. The simple point I am making is that with the exception using one particular word, you do everything you accuse others/me of doing.

BTW, I still love the fact that the article you referenced confirmed my original point. You know, the one you said was fiction.

See you in other threads. May the Force be with you.

hellno
#65. January 5th, 2008, at 9:38 PM.

All the I, I, I, you, you, you, grandstanding and LIES too…

JHP2
#61. January 5th, 2008, at 1:39 PM.
“I am done on this topic.”

bluehorseshoe
#66. January 5th, 2008, at 9:55 PM.

@ hellidiot

I’m concerned that you reduced your dosage and somehow escaped the asylum again. Its actually YOUR comments that offend tick people off when they give educated comments and all you feed is your VZW sucks, iPhone rules and here’s some links crap. Then you wonder why you get abused? Debate, don’t negate. Oh, and here’s a link for you since you’re into them…

http://www.hellnoisamoran.com
Plenty of good info and should help you out.

@ jhp2

I’ve been at this with hellno for some time now. Started when I switched from TMO to VZW on the Pearl for the 3G tethering and better call coverage and quality. He said it was a downgrade. Obviously he’s not familiar with anything that relates to technology, and is dysfunctional when it comes to a discussion. His syle of writing leads me to believe he’s missing a few cells and belongs to a dungeons and dragons group.

bluehorseshoe
#67. January 5th, 2008, at 10:15 PM.

@ jhp2

And to further explain, when I switched over and stayed as such in a comment of mine when the Pearl came out on VZW, he wrote as if I were an agent of VZW. Personally, I don’t care who the company is as long as it’s good and provides me with what I need. He uses words like vealot, zelot, fanboy, etc. Throws in wacky links and mentions that the iPhone would make a great holiday gift.

Next he’s going to say that the iPhone is going to replace the desktop and will feed my dog.

JHP2
#68. January 6th, 2008, at 12:09 AM.

Blue,

Amen brother. He really does not realize how offensive he is when he responds to people. Now he is calling me a liar. The anonymity of the internet leads to some very interesting behavior. In any event, I have been called worse by better people.

Have a great weekend!

JHP2
#69. January 6th, 2008, at 12:10 AM.

Blue,

BTW, how is that VZW Pearl working out? I am not sure it is for me but my 7130e is on it’s last legs. Too many drop tests in my driveway I guess.

bluehorseshoe
#70. January 6th, 2008, at 12:51 AM.

Jhp2

So far, so good. I’ve been using the Pearl since day 1 when it came out on TMO and the switch to VZW has been nice. If you can get used to the Pearl and it’s size, then its great. I like the size of the phone as opposed to the larger sized options, such as the 8800. Speed on the browser is good, and tethering is surprisingly very good. I stress very because its better than good and I’m getting good data speeds. Not sure where you reside, but they’ll let you test it out for 30 days for free. Video recording is OK, nothing to go crazy over, and the camera is good. Call quality is solid. I do a lot of speaker phone calls and Bluetooth calls and comes out very clear. The one thing I’d being up that can be of concern is the trackball. While they say its improved, I think it actually took a step backwards. I liked the previous track ball which seemed more accurate. I’ve already brought one Pearl back because of the ball…just doesn’t seemed to grip as well. I’ve gotten used to it, but its something that others may not like.

VZW hasn’t locked this one down as much as they have with other phones, but it still has its limitations, like not being able to install google maps. I did install yahoo messenger, use it all the time, and the haven’t picked up the texts. I’ll take it.
BTW…all my comments are from my Pearl. If I have a spelling error or word that should be something else, then its because of the suretype. But otherwise, with the few errors from time to time, I’m able to fly on this thing. Speaking of which, the keyboard is solid.

Overall, it gives me everything I need and the tethering is very good, the big bonus in my opinion and one of the reasons why people chose VZW.

Have a good one.

hellno
#71. January 6th, 2008, at 2:35 AM.

All the I, I, I, you, you, you, he, he, he, grandstanding and LIES too… ” he is offensive when he responds to” me….

Anyone else hear the violin accompaniment in the background?

JHP2
#61. January 5th, 2008, at 1:39 PM.
“I am done on this topic.”

Now the thread is about personal thoughts and dreams, “love me daddy”…. nice going. How nice they found each other, see JHP2 told you to keep your tissue that you’d need it…. “Ignorance Likes Company”

Must forget their browsers are at http://www.RIMarkable.com The official, unofficial Blackberry Weblog and not http://www.ifeelpretty.com or http://www.idowngradedmyselftoverizon.com

hellno
#72. January 6th, 2008, at 2:46 AM.

Verizon Relents on DUN… Just a Tiny Bit
Submitted by Ed Hardy on Friday, February 03, 2006

Verizon users have been complaining for years that this carrier disables Dial-Up Networking (DUN) on many of the devices it offers.

This means that they can’t be used as a wireless modem for other devices, like a laptop.

Now, for the first time, Verizon’s hard-line stance has cracked, if only a little bit.

According to PC Magazine, this carrier is now allowing users of just a few of its mobile phones to have access to DUN.

Unfortunately, none of these are Palm OS or Pocket PC models.

And users are expected to pay heavily for the service. It costs $60 a month, on top of any other services one has subscribed to.

Also, users are expected to use a cable, not Bluetooth, although many of them could use this short-range wireless networking standard.

Still, surely many Verizon customers will take this as a sign that the carrier might relent more in the future.

(Those in the know, realize vzw is being forced to allow DUN, as vzw upgrades to the GSM family of technologies)

Ripley
#73. January 6th, 2008, at 8:42 AM.

Gheeze!!! Will one of you just let it go?

JHP2
#74. January 6th, 2008, at 9:43 AM.

Blue,

Thanks for the update on the Pearl. I tether on the 7130 and it works well but it is not rev A, so I get right about 400K most of the time. Most of my co-workers that have a Pearl are on the corporate T-Mo plan so tethering really is not an option due to data speeds. I like the trackball idea a lot as I used Treo’s for years and when I switched to the BB, I developed one heck of a case of BB thumb. Used to have to ice it nightly so I am glad to have another option. Interestingly, we are no longer going to upgrade the BES at work and are being encouraged to go to Windows devices. Unfortunately, the VZW Q is a toy not a corporate device.

bluehorseshoe
#75. January 6th, 2008, at 10:05 AM.

@ jhp2

Sorry to hear about the switch. I have the MS devices plenty of chances but they weren’t reliable enough. When the treo 700p came out, I was there day one. I just don’t think they were built for heavy users like myself. The crashes drove me nuts, and the hanging calls forced me to reset at least once per day. If there’s one thing I give BB is stability. Not the prettiest OS, but certainly reliable.

Also forgot to mention it now that you brought it up, the Pearl on VZW runs Rev. A. Just one of those important features I forgot to include.

hellno
#76. January 6th, 2008, at 11:03 AM.

Whoa, hold the press! Robb please mark the date. Even though it has little to do with the current thread, must say I am in agreement with bluehorseshoe and jhp2 on their thought about M$ devices (after also giving M$ many chances to prove itself, and it’s failure to do so) Also agree about the current and ongoing sad state of Palm devices too, though never thought my 650 Palm was anywhere close as good as my 8700 BB… Now if that 8700 only had a camera, and played as nice with the MacOS.

Not that it matters but why would RIM with the new BB8130 only support TIA-856 Rev A? It hardly matters though since voda/verizon have already said they are upgrading to GSM/LTE, which is coming soon to break the closed, proprietary cdma chain as industry is moving away from the Qualcomm dominated CDMA air-interface, to the standard, open global GSM family of technologies LTE.

Jaime
#79. March 4th, 2008, at 1:04 AM.

there’s a picture of the blackberry 9000, that’s silver with a touch screen, i thought that was it? because if it is then i’d really want to purchase one.

alinnible
#80. March 9th, 2008, at 6:04 PM.

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alinnible
#81. March 24th, 2008, at 6:35 AM.

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